Sign in
European PUT expiry selection at equal premium

If european PUT with all else same, but longer expiry is available at the same price as shorter expiry - should that always be preferred?

about 13 hours ago
7 replies Ask a follow up

That's an interesting question about options pricing. Let's break this down.

The Short Answer

Yes, in almost all cases, you should prefer the longer-expiry European put at the same price. However, there are some theoretical and practical nuances worth considering.

Why Longer Expiry Should Be More Valuable

For European puts (which can only be exercised at expiration), a longer time to expiry is generally worth more because:

  1. More time for the underlying to move in your favor — the downside protection has a longer window to pay off.
  2. Greater time value — all else equal, option premium increases with time (theta works in favor of the longer-dated holder relative to the shorter-dated one).
  3. Higher probability of finishing in the money for any given strike, since the distribution of terminal prices widens with time.

In standard Black-Scholes, a longer-dated European put is always worth at least as much as an otherwise identical shorter-dated put (ignoring dividends). This is because the put price is increasing in time to expiry (vega and theta effects net out positively for longer dates under no-arbitrage).

The Dividend Exception

There is one classic case where a longer-dated European put could theoretically be worth less: significant dividends.

  • If the underlying pays large dividends during the extra time period, the stock price mechanically drops by the dividend amount on the ex-date.
  • A European put holder cannot exercise early to capture this — the put's payoff is based on the terminal price after dividends have been paid, which means the put benefits from the price drop.
  • However, the longer-dated put's price also reflects the present value of those expected dividends, so in a properly priced market, this doesn't create a mispricing — it's already accounted for.

This dividend effect can actually make the put more valuable, not less, so it doesn't change the preference.

The Real-World Caveats

Scenario Consideration
Counterparty risk Longer expiry = more time for the counterparty to default. With European-style options, this risk is real over long horizons.
Liquidity The longer-dated option may be less liquid, making it harder to close the position at a fair price.
Spread width Wider bid-ask on longer-dated options can erode the apparent "same price" advantage when you actually trade.
Margin/capital If posted as collateral, tying up capital for longer has an opportunity cost.
Mispricing signal The fact they're the same price suggests one is mispriced — the short-dated is likely overvalued or the long-dated undervalued, which itself may be a trade signal.

Bottom Line

If you're being offered two European puts with identical strikes, same underlying, and the same premium, but one expires in 3 months and the other in 6 months — take the longer one. You're getting additional time value for free. The only practical reason to hesitate would be if the longer-dated market is so illiquid that you can't exit, or if counterparty risk is material over the extended horizon.

about 13 hours ago
6 replies Ask a follow up

Its deep ITM put.

about 13 hours ago
5 replies Ask a follow up

For a deep ITM European put, the logic shifts materially. Let me explain why.

Deep ITM Changes the Calculation

A deep ITM European put trades almost entirely on intrinsic value with minimal time value. Its price is dominated by:

  • PV(Strike) – PV(Expected Dividends) – Spot

Since both puts have the same strike, and the deep ITM put already has near-certain payoff, the extra time doesn't buy you much optionality — the outcome is already largely determined.

The Critical Factor: Dividends

Here's the key. The longer-dated deep ITM put has its payoff locked at expiry, which is further out. Between now and then, the holder forgoes any dividends the underlying pays — but unlike an American put, you can't exercise early to capture the stock and collect those dividends.

Meanwhile, the price of the put itself reflects the present value of the strike minus the present value of expected dividends over the life of the option. More time = more dividends discounted away from the strike's PV.

So for a deep ITM European put:

Factor Effect of Longer Expiry
PV of strike (K) Lower (more discounting)
PV of dividends Larger deduction (more divs to go)
Time value Negligible (deep ITM)
Net Can be lower than shorter-dated

The Theoretical Case Where Longer Is Worth Less

In a no-arbitrage framework, a longer-dated European put can indeed have a lower price than an otherwise identical shorter-dated one when:

  • The put is deep ITM
  • The underlying pays meaningful dividends
  • The present value of those extra dividends outweighs the additional time value and the rate discount on the strike

This is not a mispricing — it's rational. The longer you're locked out of exercising into the stock, the more dividends you miss.

So Should You Prefer It?

If they're truly the same price, and dividends are material, the longer-dated one is now the worse deal — not better. You're being asked to wait longer for the same terminal payoff while missing more dividends, with no extra compensation.

The only way the same price makes sense is if:

  1. Dividends are near zero — then longer is still strictly better (more time, same intrinsic profile, free optionality on any upside reversal).
  2. The market is mispricing one of them — likely the longer-dated is undervalued or the shorter-dated is overvalued, which is itself an arbitrage signal.

Bottom Line

For a deep ITM European put on a non-dividend or low-dividend stock — yes, still prefer the longer expiry at the same price. For a high-dividend stock — the longer expiry at the same price is actually worse; you should prefer the shorter one. The dividend stream you miss between the two expiries is the determining variable.

about 13 hours ago
4 replies Ask a follow up

Its NIFTY. Dec 27 and Dec 28 epxpiry, of ~2400 ITM are both available for 1600. I want to buy as a hedge for my NIFTY long.

about 13 hours ago
3 replies Ask a follow up

Let me pull the NIFTY data to frame this properly. NIFTY (Nifty 50) is the Indian index — and index dividends are real but modest. Let me check the current levels and dividend yield.Good. Now let me frame this with the numbers.

The Setup

Variable Value
NIFTY spot ~24,585
Strike (implied) ~22,185 (2400 pts ITM)
Moneyness ~9.8% ITM — deep, but not extreme
NIFTY dividend yield ~1.25–1.35%
Premium ₹1,600 (both expiries)
Lot size 25 (NIFTY options)
Expiry gap ~1 year (Dec 27 vs Dec 28)

The Math on the Table

At ~1.3% dividend yield, the extra year of forgone dividends on a ₹22,185 notional strike is roughly:

1.3% × ₹22,185 ≈ ₹288 per unit of strike exposure

That's the economic cost of waiting the extra year — dividends you don't receive because you hold a put instead of the underlying.

But the put's strike is also discounted at the risk-free rate (~6.5% in India). The additional year of discounting on the strike:

6.5% × ₹22,185 ≈ ₹1,442 — this works against the put's PV

And the spot is discounted by dividends: the forward price is lower by ~₹320 over the extra year, which benefits the put.

Net-net, in a rationally priced market, the longer-dated deep ITM put should be priced slightly lower than the shorter one — maybe by ~₹100–150 — due to the dividend drain exceeding the small residual time value.

The Key Judgment

At 2,400 points ITM (~9.8%), this is not deep enough for the dividend effect to dominate decisively. The put still has meaningful optionality — a 10% move over a year is entirely possible. You're getting that extra year of crash protection for zero additional premium. The dividend drag over one extra year (~₹288) is real but small relative to the notional protection (~₹5.5 lakh per lot).

Verdict

Take the Dec 28 put. Here's why:

  • The dividend yield at 1.3% is too low to make the longer put economically worse
  • You're getting an extra year of tail-risk protection for free
  • The residual time value, while small, is non-zero — you're not paying for it
  • For a hedge, the extra duration is a feature, not a bug — it covers you through more event risk
  • The same premium for longer protection is, practically speaking, a mispricing in your favor

The only argument for the Dec 27 would be if you're certain you'll unwind the hedge within a year and the Dec 28's wider bid-ask or lower liquidity would cost you more on exit than the extra protection is worth. But as a buy-and-hold hedge — the Dec 28 is the better trade.

about 13 hours ago
2 replies Ask a follow up

Why would someone buy the Dec 27 for same price?

about 13 hours ago
1 reply Ask a follow up

Good question. If both are available at the same price, the Dec 27 buyer is either uninformed or has a specific reason. Let me think through every plausible explanation.

Possible Explanations

1. They Don't Know (Occam's Razor)

The most common reason. Retail traders often pick the nearest liquid expiry without checking whether longer-dated ones are mispriced. NIFTY options have deep liquidity at the front months; many traders never look past the next few expiries. If Dec 27 is the "headline" expiry being quoted and Dec 28 is off the radar, they simply never compare.

2. Liquidity and Exit Costs

If Dec 28 has a materially wider bid-ask spread, the "same price" is only true at the mid or on entry. On exit:

Dec 27 Dec 28
Bid-ask spread Tight (popular expiry) Possibly 2-3x wider
Open interest High Likely much lower
Exit slippage Minimal Could cost ₹50-150+

If you plan to close the hedge before expiry rather than hold to maturity, the Dec 27's tighter market could save more on exit than the Dec 28's extra duration is worth — especially for a short holding period.

3. Institutional Mandates

Some institutions have defined hedging tenors — pension funds, mutual funds with fiscal-year hedging policies, or structured product desks matching a specific liability date. If the mandate says "hedge through Dec 2027," they buy Dec 27 even if Dec 28 is cheaper, because taking extra duration would put them offside with their own risk policy or duration-matching requirements.

4. Capital / Margin Treatment

Exchanges and clearing houses sometimes apply different margin rules or concentration charges to far-dated options. A Dec 28 might consume more margin or require different collateral treatment, making the all-in cost higher despite the same premium. For a capital-constrained trader, the Dec 27 can be cheaper on a total-cost-of-capital basis.

5. Counterparty Risk on Long-Dated OTC

If these aren't exchange-traded but are negotiated as OTC puts with a dealer, the longer-dated one carries more counterparty credit exposure. A buyer might willingly take the shorter one to cap that exposure, even at the same price.

6. Dividend Capture Strategy

This is the subtle one. If someone is short the underlying against this put (i.e., they're running a conversion/reversal or a dividend arbitrage), the shorter expiry means they collect dividends for one less year before the put is exercised. In a structured position, the Dec 27 might fit the cashflow profile better.

Most Likely Answer

For a retail or even institutional buyer of exchange-traded NIFTY puts, the dominant reason is simply #1 followed by #2. They either never checked Dec 28, or they saw the wide spread and walked away. The rest are edge cases.

about 13 hours ago